How can I explain the statement ” The immigrant is the father of a young child, and he has a health problem.
January 21st, 2008 | by Michael |
grammy5254 asked:
One of my students said today that he learned in class grammar that the phrase above, I just sent is vague and has no meaning. He said that the phrase does not say clearly who is ill. It is evasive. In order for you to do your assignment has said that must know clearly who is ill. Many phrases that distributes in history are like this. I am not a professor of English. How can I explain this in simple terms that the sentence is correct. Further says that is just argue is the grandfather, but clearly does not say this with the information provided. "There is still the sentence. "The immigrant is the father of a child at a young age and has a serious health problem. Does the "speech; He" does not necessarily mean the grandfather and the child could be that he is in this sentence. I had the sense that the meaning is the grandfather. The student is no explanation except that. All teachers of English can you help?
One of my students said today that he learned in class grammar that the phrase above, I just sent is vague and has no meaning. He said that the phrase does not say clearly who is ill. It is evasive. In order for you to do your assignment has said that must know clearly who is ill. Many phrases that distributes in history are like this. I am not a professor of English. How can I explain this in simple terms that the sentence is correct. Further says that is just argue is the grandfather, but clearly does not say this with the information provided. "There is still the sentence. "The immigrant is the father of a child at a young age and has a serious health problem. Does the "speech; He" does not necessarily mean the grandfather and the child could be that he is in this sentence. I had the sense that the meaning is the grandfather. The student is no explanation except that. All teachers of English can you help?
9 Responses to “How can I explain the statement ” The immigrant is the father of a young child, and he has a health problem.”
By ellise k on Jan 24, 2008 | Reply
It is different for everyone, therefore, it does not make sense
By Marzipan on Jan 25, 2008 | Reply
I agree with your student, I really don’t know from your sentence who’s sick and who isn’t.
If it’s the immigrant who is sick, say something like “The immigrant, who is the father of a young child, has a health problem.” or “The immigrant has a health problem and is the father of a young child.”
If it’s the child, try “The immigrant is the father of a young child who has a health problem.”
Hope this helps.
By Uncle John on Jan 27, 2008 | Reply
The general rule is that the pronouns refers to the noun closest to it - so your sentence would mean that the child is sick. Your feeling was that the “and” indicated the end of one complete thought, and the reader would assume the pronoun referred back to the immigrant, the subject of the first sentence.
But it is confusing. A clearer formulation might be
The immigrant, who has a health problem, is also the father of a young child.
I find no reference to a grandfather anywhere.
By Solly on Jan 27, 2008 | Reply
You cannot explain in simple terms that this sentence is correct, because it is not correct. Your student is correct.
This sentence has a dangling participle. As both of the people could be male, “he has a health problem.” does not indicate who is sick. The only reason you think this is “common sense” is that you would prefer that health problems be reserved for people who have already lived their lives. While this is noble, it is unrealistic.
Without more information, we simply cannot determine who is sick from this sentence.
Since your student is not writing this phrase, but reading what you have written, and you think that you’re correct, I suggest you take it to some of your peers in the English department, and ask them to explain the grammar lesson that led your student to call you to the mat.
Anyone who tells you that there is enough information in the sentence as is to resolve the dangling participle should attend that lesson with you.
On a side note, your phrase “The student does not except that explanation.” is an example of the misuse of the word “except.” You’ll want to replace that with the word “accept.” You may not be an English teacher, but boning up on grammar and usage is not a bad idea for an History teacher.
You know I’m right. When your students come to learn that their knowledge of English exceeds yours, they will become contemptuous. You do not have to read anything I ever write, but your students will hang you out to dry if you keep this up.
By jasminetablen on Jan 29, 2008 | Reply
Where did the “grandfather” come from? It’s the father first off…I am assuming the father has the health problem..If it were the child, it would read..The immigrant is the father of a young child with a health problem….
By TJTB on Feb 1, 2008 | Reply
If you meant to say the CHILD was sick you would have said:
” The immigrant is the father of a young child WHO has a health problem.”
Granted if I was writing a will or a contract, I would take the extra precaution and write the sentence as:
“The immigrant, who is the father of a young child, has a health problem.” OR
” The immigrant, who has a health problem, is the father of a young child.”
But under normal writing conditions your sentence does strongly suggest the father is the one will the illness because you used the word AND keeping the added information still in reference to the father (the subject). Most people would assume it’s the father, although the sentence can be made more clear to eliminate confusion to the few (as I showed).
Hope that helped.
My answer, and in your other post of the same question, “David” and “Queenrakl”’s answers are the only truly correct answers.
All three of us agree that you are correct, but we can see how someone can be confused and we’ve given examples on how to eliminate THEIR confusion. ;o)
By girliegirl on Feb 2, 2008 | Reply
She has a point. Saying child can mean a boy or a girl, so the word HE could mean either the father or the child.
Instead say - The immigrant is the father of a young girl, and he has a serious health problem. The HE would have to be the father then.
The immigrant is the father of a young girl, and she has a serious health problem - if it’s the child that’s ill.
The immigrant is the father of a young child, and he also has a serious health problem. - That would also infer the father, not the child to me, but again, it could possibly be interrupted either way.
When I read the sentence, I assumed it meant the father, but I can see where it could be interrupted either way, since the child isn’t labeled a boy or a girl.
By daniel on Feb 3, 2008 | Reply
The purpose of good writing is communication. If a sentence is ambiguous then the writer should try to find a better way to phrase it, one where the meaning is clear to all. With no other information to put this sentence in context, it is not clear whether the immigrant has a sick child or the child has a sick, immigrant father. There is no way to tell. The student is correct in this case. In general, the pronoun refers to the nearest antecedent, but not always.(In fact, in this sentence, the nearest antecedent is the child). Sometimes a sentence may be grammatically correct, but still ambiguous.
I will give you an example of two sentences that are in the same form as your sentence.
Joe Montana threw the ball to Jerry Rice, and he ran forty yards
for a touchdown.
Joe Montana threw the ball to Jerry Rice, and he lowered his shoulder and knocked a linebacker flying.
In the first case, if the reader knows about football, it is clear that “he” refers to Jerry Rice.
In the second sentence, which is in the same form as the first, it is not clear who threw the block, Rice or Montana. “He” could refer to either player. Did Montana throw a short swing pass, then block a linebacker, or did Rice catch the ball and then hit a linebacker? There is no way to tell to whom “he” refers .
I would rewrite it as:
Joe Montana threw the ball to Jerry Rice, then lowered his shoulder and knocked a linebacker flying (if it was Montana who threw the block), or:
Joe Montana threw the ball to Jerry Rice, who lowered his shoulder and knocked a linebacker flying.
You might make your sentence unambiguous if you wrote:
The immigrant, who is the father of a young child, has a health problem.
or:
The immigrant has a health problem, and he is the father of a young child.
Hope this helps.
By rinkrat on Feb 7, 2008 | Reply
Your student is right, the sentence is unclear. You should clarify it by re-writing the sentence either:
The immigrant has a health problem, and is the father of a young child.
or
The immigrant is the father of a young child with a health problem.